Progress and Discussions w Christian Stiehl - Cartographer

I had a vision of Western Oz. However, I can't draw.  So doing the best I could, Cartographer Christian Stiehl, worked with me from November 2014 until the maps completion in June of 2015.  So if the best way to make sense of this page is to start all the way at the end which is where our discussions and the process began. 



June 30, 2015


Final Map Completed June 29, 2015


On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 12:21 PM, Christian STIEHL <> wrote:

I don’t really have time to go through all of those emails and make redactions.

However, you could do this one, simple thing: you could add one more email. Just put the email below at the top of the stack, as the most recent email. It explains my concerns to any readers with what they’ll see when they scroll down and read all the rest of the emails.


I’m excited for you that you’ve progressed to this new website, and that your book project is coming along. I continue to wish you the best of luck with your Kickstarter campaign.

I’m preparing a better Bio for you, and I will send it to you shortly.

I see that you have the “Evolution of Western Oz” section of the website. It looks like you’re attempting to give the public a glimpse into the process that went into the creation of the map. This is a great notion to pursue, and I support things like this. After all, I’m a member of the Cartographer’s Guild web site where we talk about these creation processes all the time. It can be very educational.

However, the particular way you’ve implemented this section of the web site gives me pause. It appears you’ve simply uploaded the entire stream of our correspondence, both my emails and yours. In a professional situation like ours, with a client and an artist/illustrator, it’s a little unusual to publish all of the “how the sausage got made” details like this. It’s a bit more unusual to do so without the permission of the other party. I’m not really worried about anything I said in my emails to you, because I believe I kept things professional, but even so, those emails were written to you, for the purposes of the project, and not written with the thought that they might someday be published to the world.

As just one example of my concern, there may be things in the emails that I might not want future clients to be able to Google and read. If I’m negotiating with someone else, I don’t necessarily want them looking over our entire correspondence history and coming back to me with details that they picked out of it. I haven’t asked you much about your own business, but I get the sense that you’re a successful and experienced businessman who has certainly dealt with many clients and/or customers before. Would you really want all of the deal-making and process email correspondence you sent to one of your customers to be read by all of your other customers?

One way I could see you getting around this would be to change the section of your web site a bit, so that instead of publishing the actual text of my actual emails, you would paraphrase them. So you’d put up your email, and then put in a section like “and then Christian said that he was working on drawing Emerald City…” And so on. I think that would be a more standard way of showing development process.

I want to stress that I’m not offended or worried, just a bit surprised. Hopefully we can work this detail out.

Christian Stiehl


On Jun 30, 2015, at 5:40 AM, Bob Moyer <> wrote:

p. s. I had to pay someone to upload all of this - it took them days. So to rewrite, well that would be expensive. But you changing what you do not like or even embellishing here or there offends me not. 


June 29, 2015


On Jun 29, 2015, at 10:18 AM, Bob Moyer <> wrote:

I thought you would like to see it and perhaps download it.

Also, this will be the last time I will ask as i am not a PIA...your bio?

Thanks again, you are a very talented young man. I am sorry the project took so much of your time and I thank you for sticking with it.




June 17, 2015 



June 16, 2015


Dear Ruslan, Please do not shrink these files.

Gentlemen, I address this to both of you. I will want to print these with a border for Christian's signature and have settled on 28" x 36" overall size.
Christian, I wanted to confirm explained to Ruslan that you will be getting full credit for this work. I will be back in touch a bit before i start Kickstarter.
Where is your resume!!!! Bio...I do not want to have to make up something about you being a nebulous shadow artist from a parallel universe.
Thank you for the opportunity to be of service!
Begin forwarded message:

From: Christian STIEHL <>
Subject: Bob Moyer OZ Map
Date: June 10, 2015 at 8:08:39 PM PDT

Hello Ruslan,
I’m the cartographer Bob hired last November to work on his map of Western Oz. Bob has recently paid me the balance of the commission fee and my part in the project is complete (as far as altering the artwork goes). Part of our contract was that Bob would own the copyright for the image when we were done, and after discussing it with him, I believe he should be able to make alterations to the map at this point. Such alterations have already been discussed with you, I believe, and as far as I know they include adding layers of smoke and/or clouds and changing the way the text labels look, or adding entirely new text labels.
One thing that should not be changed is my artist’s mark in the lower right corner of the map, with my name and date beside it. I did not add a copyright symbol to the map, because our arrangement was that Bob would eventually own the copyright. Bob might want you to add his own copyright notice somewhere else on the map, but I can’t speak for him and I’ll leave that up to you and him to discuss.
I’m including links to the high-resolution master files for the map. These files are in my DropBox. Please let me know right away if you have any trouble downloading them, or need anything else from me.
The files are PNG format, in sRGB 24-bit color space. One is my final master version of the map. The second is my final version but with the text labels taken out. The third is my final version with no text labels and no border. The last file is a simple PNG with the rasterized text label layer with no layer effects and with a transparent background.
The files are rather large at about 90 MB each, and are not any smaller if I try to compress them with ZIP (PNGs are usually compressed automatically, and loss-lessly by default at 24bit depth).
The files are high resolution. I made them this way after discussing with Bob his intended uses, and the fact that he wants to produce large, detailed posters. I’d advise against downsampling them, if possible. If you do re-size the files to lower the resolution, please do so carefully and be aware that certain sharp details, which were drawn pixel-by-pixel in some cases, will no longer be so sharp.


June 10, 2015


Bob Moyer <>
Jun 10

to Christian
Ok - it is important to me not to offend you.


On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 5:23 PM, Christian Stiehl <> wrote:

I'm fine with your artist making changes, once our process is complete. Your part is to send the remainder of the commission fee to PayPal. I will furnish your artist with links to the final, high-resolution artwork files just as has been requested.




Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 10, 2015, at 9:05 AM, Bob Moyer <> wrote:

He is very good. He is referring to the last little bits in the most recent email that I sent to you before you made changes.

You can still have 100% credit, we do not have to use his ideas, but I would like to be done with this map and this may be the answer. I am attaching a couple of things he has done so you can see he is not a shlep.

Also, if we like his ideas, you can do them if that is important.

As far as I am concerned you have done all of the work, deserve all of the credit, and this is like calling in a decorator after the building is done.




Project Message From Ruslan Vigovsky:

Hi Bob,

I know how to improve the map taking into account your notes. But you need to inform the person who did the map that it will be changed by you.
To work on the map I need to get the source raster file (Tiff, PSD or JPEG):
1) the separate image - basic picture without letterings (350 dpi), only landscape;
2) all the lettering separately - on one layer (350 dpi).
I can make these corrections and effects (smoke, fire, clouds etc.) only in the raster program. Also the lettering can be changed using certain effects.



Your inbox maintains a documented history of all email correspondence.

Want to end communications with this Freelancer? Use the link below to close the discussion.

Sincerely, Team



June 10, 2015

Dear Christian,

I am pricing out my Kickstarter rewards. If I have 28 X 36 inch Western Oz posters printed and shipped to you, how much per print would you want to sign and number the bottom border, xx/xxx. When you price these, you can also have numbered prints 6/xxx thru 10/xxx. Of course I will pay for shipping back to me.


As long as you're handling the shipping costs, I have no trouble signing the posters as a bonus, following our completed contract. When we discussed it earlier, I'd indicated that I didn't feel the need to charge for the signing.

It's been a while since you paid the first half of the commission fee, so as a reminder my PayPal address is


PayPain Note from Bob Moyer:

I appreciate the hard work. I really do. I really had no idea that we were done. I would have paid you immediately. The extra little bit will cover your paypain costs and is a token of my appreciation. I may ask you questions on this project from time to time - I look forward to working with you again. Next time...Be blunt - "Bob pay me I am done!!!" Send me your resume soon. b

Bob, Thanks very much, I have the notice of the payment. I will send links to your graphic artist and make sure they have what they need. 

June 9, 2015


June 8, 2015

Project Message From Ruslan Vigovsky:

Hi Bob,

I know how to improve the map taking into account your notes. But you need to inform the person who did the map that it will be changed by you. To work on the map I need to get the source raster file (Tiff, PSD or JPEG):

1) the separate image - basic picture without letterings (350 dpi), only landscape;

2) all the lettering separately - on one layer (350 dpi).

I can make these corrections and effects (smoke, fire, clouds etc.) only in the raster program. Also the lettering can be changed using certain effects.

Thanks, Ruslan


He is very good. He is referring to the last little bits in the most recent email that I sent to you before you made changes.

You can still have 100% credit, we do not have to use his ideas, but I would like to be done with this map and this may be the answer. I am attaching a couple of things he has done so you can see he is not a shlep.

Also, if we like his ideas, you can do them if that is important. As far as I am concerned you have done all of the work, deserve all of the credit, and this is like calling in a decorator after the building is done.



Bob,  I'm fine with your artist making changes, once our process is complete. Your part is to send the remainder of the commission fee to PayPal. I will furnish your artist with links to the final, high-resolution artwork files just as has been requested.



June 4, 2015 



I sent you the last two proofs about a week and half ago, but haven’t heard anything back from you. I got your automatic email response that you were on vacation, so I didn’t want to bother you during that time. Are we ready to wrap this up so that I can give you the final high-resolution files, transfer the copyright to you, and receive the remainder of the commission fee?

I hope everything with your Kickstarter is going well.

Sincerely,  Christian Stiehl



Well I have not started Kickstarter. I took your advice and forwarded it to my graphic designer. He is wrapping up another project and will get on that shortly. There will be little if any to change. I will pay you promptly once we finish.




On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 8:25 PM, Christian STIEHL wrote:


As a matter of business and contractual professionalism, it would be improper for me to consent to another graphic artist working on the image at this stage. Currently, the work is in progress and I own the copyright. Once our contract is concluded and I’m paid in full, I will transfer the copyright to you. You will own the image and may do with it as you wish.

I did suggest that you engage the services of a graphic designer if you need to experiment with different looks for the typography. This suggestion was made in reference to a final product, after I’d delivered the completed files. I had made the offer that I would create versions of the map both with and without my typography on them, and I stand by this offer: I’ll be happy to provide a text-less version of the map for your graphic designer once our contractual period is complete.

I hope this clarifies things. Sincerely, Christian Stiehl



On Jun 4, 2015, at 6:15 PM, Bob Moyer  wrote:

Christian. I am new to all of this. There is no way I would intentionally do anything to slight you. I am sorry I have offended you.

I provided the map to the graphic designer as you suggested for his input on the lettering and coloring. Also on some of the suggestions that I made in my last email with darkening the Dreadful Wilds and some other small volcanoes to add a bit of color.

I did this because I feel guilty going back to you again and again. You have put a lot of time in and I was and am feeling very abusive...the problem is I know what I want and we are so very close. Of course, I want you to finish it. I want you to have full credit. We also discussed signed early versions.

Now please take what to heart and in the kindly spirit that I intend. This book will take off. If not this year then the next. Give me some more of you to put in your bio. This is free advertising and though it means little today, one day it will mean a lot. You worked eleven years I think at Kinko - you obviously advised business leaders, consulted in product design. Use some of that imagination that earned you first place in the contest. Give me a link to the magazine or website if you have one.. You have done a lot more than you give yourself credit for - havent you done volunteer work for your kids school, etc.

In closing, I am sorry I offended you. Bob



Thanks for your swift response. I had not taken offense, and I hope I didn’t come across as offended. We are simply in a contractual situation, and I wanted to make sure we were on the same page about the status of the project so that no one got to the “offended” stage. It’s best to keep communications clear and keep assumptions to a minimum.

I’ll work up a more detailed bio for you, now that I know what kinds of things you’d like to see in it.



May 16, 2015 


Christian, the map is looking great.


First, let me comment on the lettering. I like the style the way it is and the size. After our last discussion, I began exploding the images to fill my 17" monitor as that size will equate to some of the smaller prints. At that size the lettering is visible. However, this image will be on the inside cover and first page of the book and this is where most people will see it the most. I want it to pop out. People will flip back and forth to reference their reading and I do not want them having to search for descriptions. are some suggestions. I would like to see these and choose on of the three...if you can do all three - great if not - 1st choice - all black or black with gold tinges as in the Z of Western Oz Logo. Second Choice - Coloring very similar to the O in the logo Oz, but with a bit more black or black outline. 3rd, the red and black coloring of the canyon floor of Hell's hearth.


Volcano close to Cornucopia

I see you added smoke...good move. I would like to see the smoke have some black in it and some red lava trickling down the volcano's sides.


There is plenty of room and one white peaked mountain near the top of the image that could also be converted from peak to volcano with some similar coloring...the fire red would add some contrast to these areas and interest.



These are a great addition to the Wilds. How about making one of them spewing fire and yellow black smoke. Or add another one. Or do something like this along the mountain base leading into the wilds.



I am sorry to say...that I today noticed the many layers of tiers coming off the Wilds and Outlands. Great job.

One thing I would like to see would be a waterfall coming off of the top tier of the Fringes, pooling a bit on each tier and running off some rivulets and ending with a water body collection in the Outlands. From this lake or whatever, you could run a river or stream into that INCREDIBLE ravine that separates the Wilds/Oulands/Monkey Jungle. The river would add to the natural flow of water below. I can sketch this out. I just figure out how


Plateaus -

This one is your fault. Since this can be enlarged and I never noticed it on a small image are the plateaus - can you give them a bit of texture or tree or blemish - not all of them but just cut in a little diversity. They are extensive at my request, and I want them to remain - just make parts of them look less flat and perfect. If this is any kind of hassle at all - forget it. I am likely being picky.


Don't forget Devil's Walk - and your bio...Great Job.





May 15, 2015





I’ve been working all week on lots of little changes to the map, as we discussed. Most of the drastic changes are to the Wilds area, although there are lots of little things in many places.



With the addition of the compass rose and my signature mark, this is the first version of the the map that could possibly be considered “finished”. I think there may be a few more details here and there that we talked about doing, but take your time and look this one over, checking carefully for anything that might jump out at you.



If you’re still not sure how you’d like the lettering to look, I can supply you with a couple versions of the finished map: one with the text labels and one without. That way, you could hire any graphic designer you wish to go through lots of versions of lettering, laying them on top of the map in one of their graphic design applications. It would be a simple thing for any decent graphic artist to do.


Keep in mind that the proof image below is still only at half the final resolution. The final file will be rather large, and I’ll have to probably just send you a link to the file on my dropbox account where you can download it.


I’ll send a followup email after this one with a version of the map below without text labels on it, so you can experiment with different types of text.







May 8, 2015




Greetings Christian,

I got sidewinded at my real job. I did spend some time on the lettering. I am attaching your recent map with different color lettering. I like your font, but did not have the time to find it. I also could not figure out how to outline my text like you did. But I really like the different colors that stand out depending upon the topography. I am of the opinion, if you make it hard to find the names, then the viewer is spending their time looking for that rather than your fine detail. See what you can do with that.


Also, I think some contrast in colors-features would help overall. There is too much green and light colors. Some of the maps I sent to you had dark brown rubble and worn rounded mountains, bleak and dark. Intersperse this into the areas around cornucopia, and else where as a smattering. You can throw in a vortex or two in the outlands and wilds. These areas are also lacking water bodies...perhaps a river draining into a vortex...then you could cover the rest up with mist and such because these are areas of unknown.


As it is I think the Wilds and outlands appear too similar. The outlands should be as it is barren, but maybe more diverse color - there is red sandstone...oaisis. The wilds is supposed to be wild - jungle wild and unknown.


The dots do not cut it. They are too hard to follow. Maybe we do not need a walk at all. perhaps if where it starts, near the eye of the witch and at the other end, at the start of the Valley, you letter those access points as "Devil's Walk, that will be enough. I think where you have the dots around the eye, you can cut a zig zag in the canyon side from airport to canyon bottom. You need do nothing on the valley side.


I like the yellow brick, but it should be brighter -


I like the color of the eye and the rich glow you have added to the hearth. I have no problem with you cutting a path in the bottom of the hearth so that the volcanic colors hug the canyon walls leaving the canyon floor passable. I would like that better. I can try it on photoshop too.


I am out of words. - Thank you for your continued interest!






On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 3:22 AM, Christian STIEHL <> wrote:




A couple days ago I sent you three proofs, each with slightly different lettering. I was wondering what you thought of those.


Also, here is a new proof. This one has the Devil’s Walk gold dots as before, and now includes some other features like:
1) ground texture in the upper left, upper right, and lower left corners of the map, filling in some of the more “blank” looking areas
2) a pathway that leads down from the Eye o the Witch to the floor of the Gorge in the Hearth area
3) some changes to the lava and the glow in the hearth area
4) a bit of yellow brick road leading from the Emerald City, going through some gently rolling hills. I was going to connect this up to the Eye.
5) changed the color of the Eye to make it more striking
6) don’t worry about the “Eye o the Witch” lettering…it’s off-center in this proof, but I’ve already fixed it on the master.


Let me know what you think. I’m still planning to add creepy fog and mist to the Dreadful Wilds area, and sulfurous gasses to the Hearth area.







See below...


On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 4:48 PM, Christian STIEHL <> wrote:
Different Colored Lettering:
I could see doing two colors, one primarily light and one primarily dark, to use over light or dark terrain. This is something that’s done on maps sometimes, and as long as it’s clear to the viewer that the color of the text was chosen for contrast. I’d suggest keeping it simple with white (black outlines) text in many places and black (white outlines) text in a few places, where needed. I think that using many different colors simultaneously will look strange on this map. 

Dreadful Wilds:
Again, I’ll try to spice up this area in the ways you suggest: adding some pit-like vortexes, adding a river falling into one, adding some colorful mists and such. I don’t think I’ll be able to draw any carnivorous plants or anything,
(not needed) as were on some of the map samples you sent me. Keep in mind that this is a map of the area, not a depiction like a concept artist or a cover artist would draw.
I understand 
I’ll continue to deepen some shadows and add darker, contrasting texture to places that could benefit from it. But again, it’s a tempting thing to think that every square inch needs to be filled up with something, and that’s a temptation that, as a graphic designer, I have to advise against.
This is acceptable and diversity of color and topography will draw from vacant areas
Most good maps and posters have some patches that aren’t full of crunchy details. Those spare areas help draw the viewer’s eye toward the important details. And this map already has very few spare areas left to it.
I’ll add an oasis or two to the Outlands, along with a few more of those acacia trees that are near the bridges. And I’ll redden up the rocks and canyon walls a bit.
Devil’s Walk:
I’l try a yellow line, semitransparent.
Yellow Brick Road:
Continuing the road and turning it into the Devils’ Walk doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense to me.
As we discussed long ago, the Devil’s Walk was not going to be an actual drawn path, but a trail that was indicated after the fact by mapping techniques such as dashed lines or some such. But I will make the road wider and extend it to the Eye.  OK - I agree
Hell’s Hearth:
" pockets of fire and fumes. That will look incredible.” — I have no idea if I’d be able to draw that and have it look incredible. I’d experimented with it 
a few weeks back and didn’t like how it was looking. Throwing out the Hearth floor entirely (not suggesting that, just pealing it back and running it up the walls a bit to make a walkway -  swath through there should be fine.
and re-drawing it, at this point, is something that I’m rather reluctant to do. It would involve a great deal of extra work and is not a trivial thing. I actually really like the way the Hearth looks, and I think it’s a striking and evocative way of conveying a lava region that has seldom been seen before. Then run it a bit up the walls and leave pools or streams of it on the HH canyon floor. I like the pattern, but too much of anything is too much. do not scrap it. I can experiment too if you get stymied.  After I see what I suggest, I may be wrong. 
It’s one of the things that sets this map apart from many others. I think I can make a more obvious “solid path” along the bottom of the Hearth so that it doesn’t look as much like people have to actually walk on the lava. Good. It is coming together well. If i am redundant, forgive me as I was in the thick of things yesterday, but upon near completion or as you complete an area, I will add some of the close ups to my Kickstarter presentation. This map will solidify the professionalism and detail going into this project. Thank you for all that you have done!

May 7, 2015 


 Christian, thank you for the quick response. See my comments below.


On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 3:14 PM, Christian STIEHL <> wrote:
Lettering Color:
I can certainly change up the color of the lettering. Originally the letters were black, and then I made them white and larger, but along the way I’ve experimented with different colors. In my opinion, the white letters with black outlines are the most legible of all the ones I’ve tried. Keep in mind that, with such varied terrain underneath, letters of a color that stand out in one location may be hard to see in another location. I’ll mock up some examples with the colors you included in your sample document.
I was suggesting different colors to go with different terrain. I do not see one color working. Your size of print was fine. I was using the colors as a point of reference. Where there was a contrast of color between the topography and the description, your size worked fine, leaving your letters the same, I can still print it large if you want me to. You can also try outlining the letters if you like but I think the color bolded will be sufficient
Lettering Size:
Of course I could make the letters larger. As they are, the letters for the labels on this map are already rather large. I certainly don’t think that anyone will have to go searching for the labels in the final map. For instance, if this map were printed at the 30 inch by 40 inch size, which is a reasonable size for a poster, the letters of the labels would be more than half an inch tall. Letters of that size would be visible from half-way across the room—not just visible to someone standing right in front of the poster. If you’re only looking at these proofs of the map on a small computer screen, you may not be getting a feel for how large the letters already are. It might be a good idea to get a print done at a Kinko’s or somewhere so that you can check it out. In fact, I’d highly recommend that you do just that before we’re all done with this process. It makes a real difference when you see something printed out—you catch things that you otherwise might have missed.
Dreadful Wilds:
I’ll see what I can do about vortexes. Anything to give it some mystery and character. It looks bored, tired, and ho-hum compared to all of the other detail.
Overall Contrast:
I can do a bit of darkening and roughing up in places, here and there. Some of this was already done in the map proofs I sent you last night. Keep in mind that maps are abstractions, and should have some breathing space between features. It’s important for the eye of the viewer. Not every inch should be filled with details—that gets overwhelming. Darkening things up overall could also have the effect of muddying the map and actually lowering the overall contrast, so it this sort of thing has to be handled carefully.
I guess I am confusing. Take a look at the map I have attached. Note some of the varied topography. I am suggesting that you sprinkle in some of this dark and different topography to give the map a bit more contrast. I am not wanting the over all map darkened. Sorry for the confusion.
I can redden up the rocks around the area. I could put in an oasis or two if it’s important.  Diversity is important - the Outlands and Wilds are a large part of this map with no intrigue. I mentioned oasis and such as an idea of diversity.
Devil’s Walk:
I thought the gold dots looked rather nice, being not too obvious and obtrusive but clearly there if you were looking for them. Keep in mind the final poster size, as I mentioned above. In other words, while the dots may be small when viewed on the screen, they’ll be quite clear once the poster is printed at full size. I can easily get rid of them, however. If you had some other suggestion for what you might want the path to look like, I could try that out. For instance:
1) White or black dashes
2) Red, semitransparent line that’s wide
3) Glowing blue line that’s narrow
4) Or we could just let viewers trace their own path, and not have one spelled out for them - I think I would continue with a solid yellow line as the walk. that color seems to work for pretty much every part. You may have to change some background color a bit if faint - perhaps not. Leave those areas to the imagination or blend the yellow line into a color that stands out for that particular topography
Path to the Bottom:
There is already a path to the bottom from the Eye to the Hearth—that was in the proofs I sent you last night. It zig-zags across the cliff face just below the Eye o’ the Witch structure. I will add a label down there that clearly marks it as the start of the Devil’s Walk. I am suggesting cutting a path into the canyon walls in that area. See attached images. i think the label on each end is a good idea anyway
Yellow Brick Road:
Glad you like it. I wasn’t sure if it was appropriate for your story, not having read it yet. I will make it bigger and brighter now. I do like it. Very good idea. You could also continue on with it as Devil's Walk as it appears a color to stand out.
Path through the Hearth:
I’ll sketch out a path through the Hearth that’s a little bit clearer. Yes you can put some brown and black rubble like in the attachment. Leave the color for the canyon sides.




May 5, 2015




In this series of proofs I have put in the Devil’s Walk. I made it a series of dots done in the same style as the border, with the shiny gold motif. It disappears behind the mesas at a few points, giving it the feeling of being down on the bottom of the gorge. I haven’t put in a text label for it yet, but that’s coming. Also, I’ll be making a path down from the Eye o’ the Witch to the Hearth floor, among other little additions.


I’ll be sending along a couple other versions of the same map in two more emails, each one showing the text in a slightly different color. These will be two versions of the red lettering that you requested. Having looked at them both, I still lean toward the white lettering as being more legible, over all, but we can go with a red option if you prefer. See what you think.


Here is the first sample, with the white letters:




Bob, a red outline on the letters.






Here is a third version of the devil’s walk map, this time with solid red letters that have a white outline.




May 3, 2015


Don't quote me yet, but basically I'd say that I put lots of detail into it so that it could be printed as a large poster and be sharp and clear even for people who are looking at it up close. Not fuzzy or pixelated. I love being able to look very closely at large maps, and I wanted viewers of this map to have the same experience.


When designing a poster like this, it's important to keep the primary purpose in mind. Some people will be viewing it on a web page, or on a small printed page, so it should look decent at that size. But most people will be viewing the map printed in a large format, so the map should look its best at that size.





May 2, 2015


Christian, My wife loves it also but wants to know how will viewers know to look at parts of this map up close to that extent?


Which raises a question I hope you can answer. What might I say when showing it off so that people know to magnify? Better yet, make it easy on me. Give me something or some explanation that I can cut and paste as a quote from you.


Bob Moyer

I’m working on the Devil’s Walk, and I’ll put a path down from the Eye to the Hearth floor.
With this image today I wanted to show you some work I’ve recently done on the OZ title graphic itself, up in the corner of the map. This sample is at 100% resolution:



May 1, 2015


Thanks Christian! It looks good. How do you intend to convey Devil's Walk? Also, the end product will need a trail leading from HH to the Eye...I appreciate the detail It is looking amazing.


Bob Moyer



On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 9:06 PM, Christian STIEHL  wrote:




This new image has some shadows and highlights added in lots of places, a bit of work in the Fringes area, and the addition of the “widow’s walk” balcony at the top of the central building in Emerald City.




April 28, 2015




Here is a new image, showing some changes in the Hell’s Hearth area.


You’ll see that I’ve shrunk the height of the Eye o’ the Witch a bit, and compressed the overall size of the building. I’ve also added the access planks on the mid-level and near ground level. A second balloon awaits passengers in the courtyard.


I scooted the building up to the edge of the gorge, and did some re-drawing of that side of the gorge so that the building could rest on the edge without any strange overlaps with features that were underneath.


I’ve made some changes to the lava in the Hearth area, both to make it look a little more like the pictures you sent along and also to make more pathways available to people walking down there. Finally, I changed the look of the glow on the walls of the canyon a bit.





On Apr 28, 2015, at 5:08 PM, Christian STIEHL <> wrote:




Congratulations on the imminent start of your Kickstarter campaign. I know that’s an exciting time. Though I don’t have large numbers of Twitter followers or Facebook contacts, I’ll certainly be letting them know about the campaign and sending the people in my social circle to your site.


As you can tell my the number of proofs I’ve been sending you over the last few months, I’m doing everything I can to get this project done and have our contract fulfilled as soon as possible. I allowed the scope of the detail in the poster to run away from me a bit, and it’s taken far longer than I’d estimated at the beginning. I haven’t kept strict track of my time (because that was never part of our contract), but at this point I’d conservatively say that I’m into “hundreds of hours” territory in terms of the amount of time I’ve spent drawing this map since late last year. It’s been rewarding in many ways, but I’m fairly desperate to be finished.



The resolution of the file is quite high, so the map could be easily printed at any number of sizes. Keeping things proportional, and just going off the top of my head (with regards to common poster sizes), you could easily print the posters at:
1) 18.5 by 24 inches
2) 23.2 by 30 inches
3) 28 by 36 inches
4) 32.5 by 42 inches
5) 37 by 48 inches


The map file I’m providing to you has a decorative border as part of the map image itself, which you’ve already seen. Any additional padding of border space (for instance, in order to fit on a particular poster size of paper) would most likely be handled by the printer. If the printer needs me to pad the image with a border of some kind, just let me know and I can help.



This is really up to you, based on the quality you wish to provide to your readers and/or kickstarter backers. You’ll need to investigate printing options and decide on a price point that delivers the kind of poster you’d like people to have. I’m familiar with giclee/inkjet printing processes and various types of paper/substrate that you might use, but there are lots of options. You could print the poster on glossy or semigloss stock — those are really good for preserving fine detail. Semigloss is especially good, because it doesn’t reflect quite as much as full glossy stock. Or you could print the poster on canvas, and it would look even more like an actual painting or drawing, at the cost of some level of detail. If I were you, I’d want to investigate the various options available and see which ones struck me as the most desirable for the best price.


Yes, by all means use archival inks. In the industry, these are also called “pigmented inks”. They are often rated as “UV protected”. Getting acid-free paper is also a good idea.


As we discussed on the phone, I used to work for Kinko’s. I worked there for more than 11 years, and during that time one of my jobs was to prepare and print large posters on big inkjet printers. These tended to be individual posters for business customers, for use in presentations and such. We didn’t to any “runs” of multiple posters, because our pricing model was such that it was much more economical for customers to go to other places for that. I left Kinko’s in 2006 and haven’t really been involved in poster printing since then.


As we discussed, I’m happy to sign and number the poster copies. Since I work from home, I can generally be available to receive deliveries if I know what day they’re supposed to arrive.



I don’t really have any experience with fulfillment duties for campaigns like this, such as mailing things to backers. One detail I know is that you want to do everything possible to avoid shipping internationally, because it’s so extraordinarily expensive. I assume that there is some sort of mailing tube or tube-like box that would be used. We used to have a triangular box at Kinko’s that we used for posters being sent by FedEx. Perhaps the printer that you choose will have shipping options. Whatever size you choose for the posters will of course dictate the size you need for the shipping container.


I’ll be sending you a new proof with some changes to the Hell’s Hearth area. Expect that later today, most likely.



Christian Stiehl


April 27, 2015


Dear Christian,

I am starting Kickstarter in May. You probably told me, but...I forgot.


What size were you suggesting for the maps?


I need the specifications you suggest, with a border


Also, what process - giclee, etc.


Paper type, weight


Inks/printer and something archival because I am touting these as collectibles.


Once the project is funded, I figure I would pay for the printing in your area, you could sign them, and then it is up to me to work out the mailing from there.


In that these will be mailed, what mailing media do you suggest for their protection - tubes? If so, what dimension.


Help me with the questions that I am not smart enough to ask.


I have taken this week off to try to tie up loose ends on this project. It would be great if you could get me these answers no later than Friday?


also, we may have spoken about the price of printing and such, I have all of my emails, but perhaps you will recall.


Bob Moyer,


April 25, 2015


Wow! What incredible detail! I am amazed at that when the image is blown up!


Here is what I think.


  • Push the structure all the way to the edge of the Gorge so that the access planks appear to hang over.
  • Provide a couple of access planks at ground level.
  • Make the structure smaller
  • Perhaps have the balloon being launched from within the enclosed walls.
  • This structure is small in relationship to the Emerald City.

Thank you so much! Bob


On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 3:46 AM, Christian Stiehl wrote:




I' do read your comments below, have examined the sample maps, and am working on your suggestions. In the meantime, I wanted to send you this image of the Eye o' the Witch. I've designed the structure based on your comments, both in email and in the phone. It's constructed as a tall facility created for launching the hot air balloons that fly over the gorge. I've drawn a turn of the century period hot air balloon just taking off from the tallest tower.




April 23, 2015


Greetings Christian,


I checked all of your emails and could not find the red lettered map. I would like to see it.
Yes you have done a lot and I do notice the caves. I think the red and black coloring in Hell's Hearth might be more effective if it was not solid, but mixed with some dark and blackened topography. In the story, there is a lot of sulpher fumes and ash and yellow smoke...can that be worked in?
We still have to do something with the lettering.  I will ponder the matter, but it may involve an offsetting fuzziness color behind it to make the white letters stand out. There is a sample of that in one of the maps I recently sent.
I am attaching a couple more images. Can you think of a way to make the Dreadful Wilds look dreadful?  They should be looking mysterious, spooky.  I was thinking to incorporate all sorts of topoghraphy and then maybe having parts of hazed or misted out.  I am at a loss and open to ideas. Here are my thoughts on the maps and what I like...or that I think would be effective
Please know that these are suggestions to help get you through this as I am sure it must be getting old.  I really appreciate your detail and these suggestions and examples in no way or intended as a slight or insult to the hard work that you have provided.
Storm Hollow Map.
I love the volcanic action and no offense like it a good deal better than what we have going on in devils walk.
I also like the color separation for the sections in this map and that helps the lettering stand out.  
A blend of this topography in the wilds would surely add intrique and mystery.
A blend of the dryer darker desert features would be great for the outlands.
Krekosen Map
Notice the way that towns are scattered here and there. You could so some small ones outside of cornucopia and blend them into forest and also on the fringes more forest and a few towns and perhaps a town clinging to the wall of one fringe.
I like the way the world and water drops off into nothing and you could do that at the bottom of the outland.
Dark Map and Burnished Map - I thought these added a gloom and aged and were interesting  - I have no suggestions for their use, but thought you as a cartographer might enjoy.




I’ve looked at black letters, red letters, and gold letters, and none of them show up as well or are as readable as the white letters. I did send you a sample with the red letters a few days ago. I’d recommend that we stick with the white letters with the black outlines.

Question: should we have a separate name for the lower range of mountains near Cornucopia?


In this new proof, I’ve done a bunch of work adding thickets, groves of trees, and forested areas in and around the Cornucopia region. You might also notice some caves in the Hearth region, with lava rivers flowing out of them.





April 19, 2015



Here is an update of the map with the border I’ve been working on, and with the title changed a bit to match the border. I’m still working on the other details we’ve discussed.



April 18, 2015


Bob, Here is a version of the map with the text all the same size, across the map




That's great feedback. Many of the things that your friends mention are hints that were still in the works, getting polished up, but these comments will help to sharpen the direction of the updates I'm doing. They'll also help me make sure there are no glaring issues or omissions.


I'm using only one font at the moment, but it's adjusted to a few different sizes so that the text will fit better in certain areas. I can do a version where all the text is the same size so that you can decide if you like that better.


I had done a version of the text in black with white outlines, but I found that the white with black outlines was more readable. It was also similar to the text on the sample maps you sent along. I can do a version of the text in red so that we can see how that looks—red is a decent contrast color for this map, because there's not that much of it already on there.


I'll definitely be touching up the color of the waters and filling in the lands around Cornucopia. I'm also still planning on giving you that widow's walk/balcony on the tower in the Emerald city and putting in the dotted line showing the approximate path of the Devil's walk. Also, the Eye o' the Witch is still coming.


--Christian Stieh


On Apr 18, 2015, at 6:28 AM, Bob Moyer <> wrote:


Looks good, Christian...


I like the glow on the canyon walls in Hell's Hearth.


I also like the text and ask that you consider the following recommendations.


Try the descriptions in a black/dark/red font. I would also suggest that one font be used - I like the Monkey Jungle font.


I think the map is looking great and have shared it with a number of folks - the persistent comment was that "it needs something" - they do not know what the "something" is.


Needing a bit more color is the best they come up with perhaps crimson text would help as well as perhaps making the streams and water a deeper blue would help. Have you any suggestions. Everyone loves the details...


The only other comment that I heard a couple of times were questions about the void/blank areas around the colored areas of Cornucopia.


I appreciate your industry and attention to detail and hope you can take this email in the positive vein intended.

Bob Moyer


April 17, 5015 


Looks good, Christian...

I like the glow on the canyon walls in Hell's Hearth. I also like the text and ask that you consider the following recommendations.

Try the descriptions in a black/dark/red font.  also suggest that one font be used - I like the Monkey Jungle font.

I think the map is looking great and have shared it with a number of folks - the persistent comment was that "it needs something" - they do not know what the "something" is.

Needing a bit more color is the best they come up with perhaps crimson text would help as well as perhaps making the streams and water a deeper blue would help.  Have you any suggestions. Everyone loves the details...

The only other comment that I heard a couple of times were questions about the void/blank areas around the colored areas of Cornucopia.

I appreciate your industry and attention to detail and hope you can take this email in the positive vein intended.

April 15, 2015



This has incredible detail that one cannot begin to appreciate until you explode the map! It is really developing character.  One suggestion - the red and black charred area of the earthfire-firewalkers... perhaps you could blacken and redden some of the base canyon walls of those areas. creatures live volcanic type caves. You may also want to clear a path through the bottom of the canyon. I am open to suggestions. Thank you for the update and attention to detail.


Here is an updated map. I’ve made lots of changes, large and small, here and there, including:

1) Added a new triple waterfall in place of one of the older single waterfalls

2) Added white water touches and foam to all the waterfalls

3) Filled in the strange, muddy pools in the Dreadful Wilds area

4) Added lots of blocks of jungle to the Wilds

5) Added lots of trees to the Mountains of Madness 

6) Added some savanna-like trees (thorn acacia trees) to outskirts of Outlands area

More to come…


April 2, 2015 Looking good! Don't forget my three tier waterfall!

I just noticed that!!! I think I was hung up on the attached illustration which has a dramatic waterfall effect. If you want to do another more pronounced or develop the one you have that is fine. Sorry about that.


Pass on the No-Name Gorge. when I first envisioned the map, I envisioned the gorge being a lot longer from East to West and narrower from N to S and looking more like a gorge. It turned out more interesting, but the name might be confusing.
Happy Easter, Christian!


On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Christian Stiehl <> wrote:

We do have the three level waterfall on the western end of the gorge. Should I convert one or two of the waterfalls that are closer to Emerald city into three-tier falls as well? Also, do you want me to put in a big label for "no-name gorge"? Just checking. 

Christian...On the text - you might want to get some opinions other than mine with respect to visibility.


I am attaching a few "busy maps" that have handled the lettering pretty well. There are plenty that have not. I am thinking that in this age, people want info quickly and will want the info to jump out at them rather than have to seek out obscure lettering. But get some ideas from others.




Quick update with just the typography changed: enlarged and re-positioned to be better seen. Also, I added some new text labels.




April 1, 2015

I like the "look" of the letters, but some are way to small to see or blend with topography.


On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 3:39 AM, Christian STIEHL  wrote:
Here is another updated proof. I’m working on the look of the Wilds and Outlands, as well as playing with the look of the Monkey’s Jungle. I’ve added in new text titles that I like a lot more than the previous ones. I’m adding the new mountains at the far western edge. I’m working on a new, better border and a more sharp and colorful look for the main title.


March 24, 2015
Really looking good! I love it!



On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 11:35 PM, Christian STIEHL  wrote:



I wanted to share the latest image, showing progress on the snow and glaciers on the taller mountains (six miles is very high), the tree-line mountain colors, and the beginning of cutting down the farmland area. Also, I’m starting in on sketching out the Wilds and Outlands based upon the textures I’d been using to fill them in. I haven’t yet put in the new details in Emerald City as we talked about below, but that’s in the works.



March 21



I’m including a new full-resolution image of Emerald City, showing lots of added details, bridges, etc. I’ve made the central tower complex taller and shrunk some of the rear buildings that were competing with it visually. This is meant to be the structure that the great Oz uses.





As for the circularity of the cites, remember that none of these features are meant to but fully representational. For instance, the towers of the Emerald City appear to be nearly as tall as the nearby mountains, but that clearly cannot be the case. There is a useful, figurative, illustrative shift in perspective going on, because otherwise the cities wouldn’t be very recognizable at this scale. The cities are shifted up in size and simplified in appearance.


The simplicity of the “rounded” look is part of this figurative shift. That said, I made Emerald City intentionally more circular than Cornucopia….Emerald City is often portrayed as more precisely planned than most other communities and is usually drawn with a circular footprint. I made Cornucopia with a bit more of a “rough” circular outline to show it as a more medieval-style town, as we discussed earlier. If I were to do a full city-size map of Cornucopia by itself, you would see that it probably doesn’t have a very circular outline, but instead has a footprint dictated by the terrain where it developed. You would also see that it has many more buildings of even greater variety. Adding that kind of variety to a large map like Western Oz, at the scale it would appear (very tiny), would truly be excessive detail (and I think I’ve already gone overboard on the detailing of many sections of this map as it is).



Christian Stiehl


On Mar 19, 2015, at 8:15 AM, Bob Moyer  wrote:


Greetings, Christian,

This is one of three emails with images.

Two of the three are suggestions for Oz and Cornucopia. I will explain the last email when I send it, but it is about your consideration in drafting another image.

Because of the footprint of the novel/topography, there is a central building in the city where Oz resides. It once was a Keep now converted to castle fortress, etc. So that has to stand out. Also, the perimeter walls of Emerald and Cornu can have some dimension other than circle - irregular, rectangle, pentagon etc. Each should be different. I like the Keep look in the one image and I really like the Image of Emerald.

The images here have some diversity that I would like to see incorporated if possible.

Notice how some have a blue hue - you would use green.

The next email will have my thoughts on Cornucopia

Bob Moyer, 


March 18, 2015


The progress images I’m including today are showing how Cornucopia and Emerald City are coming along. I’m sending two detail images at 100% resolution, along with the standard half-resolution composite of the whole map.


I wanted to get to the constructed parts of the map so that those cities and buildings would be taking shape along with the rest of the map. It’s been a lot of work, but I think there’s some cool stuff in there. Cornucopia is mostly done, I think, with a few more details to put in. Obviously, I’m still going to make changes to the farmland and put in a few farm houses here and there. Emerald City has more detail work to do. Many of the towers have domes on top, but I’ve begun to differentiate a few of them so that they are capped by different shaped towers. Also, I’m planning to put in bridges from tower to tower, here and there, to show how connected they are. I wasn’t drawing Emerald City directly from any existing image, but I was inspired by some images of it that I’d seen in books and in movies. Mostly from memory…not copied from any particular source.


Also, I’d planned for Emerald City to be “cut off” on the side of the map like that because we’d talked about doing an Eastern OZ map, where I’d have the rest of the city show up on the opposite side of the image. I do have the entire circular image of the city drawn out, however, so if you’d rather see the whole city on this map, I could shift things a little bit to fit it in.



Let me know what you think.


Sincerely,   Christian


March 12, 2015


Dear Christian,
It sure is looking good. I really appreciate the attention you are giving this. If this doesn't help you pick up some new accounts, I am not sure what else you could possibly do!


On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 3:46 AM, Christian STIEHL wrote:

Today’s update shows more polish on the Hell’s Hearth area, where I sharpened up the lava cracks with more detail and put in a very important and evocative glow on the canyon walls in that area. I really like the way it’s looking. Also, I’ve just started on the buildings and city layouts for the man-made features of the map, such as Cornucopia. The basic city walls, gates, and wall towers are there, as well as lots of buildings and a castle in the middle. Right now the buildings are just boxes, but they will all have roofs and details and eventually colors as well. I just thought you might want to see the basic city size and layout.
Tomorrow I’m planning on laying out more of the Emerald City stuff, the Witch’s Eye, and some little houses in the farmland area, among other things.
Christian Stiehl


March 11, 2015



I’ve taken some time to add Raven’s Ridge into the map, as you indicated late last week. You’ll see where I’ve rearranged the cliff sides along the southern edge of the gorge, added lots of rough little ridge-like mountains, and shaded them. I still have the river from the gorge slicing through them and flowing south through the canyon. Now that Raven’s Ridge is added in, I’m going to go back to working on the stuff we had talked about before, such as the adjustments to the farmlands, adding the vegetation textures, etc., etc.
I’ll send another proof tomorrow.


March 6, 2015



I’m working on your other suggestions from the email below, but I wanted to do the new butte first and send that proof along to you. I’ve also done some work on the Hell’s Hearth area. I’m continuing working on all of the other aspects we’ve talked about.

On Mar 5, 2015, at 7:29 AM, Bob Moyer wrote:

Dear Christian,

I am enjoying the evolution of the map and appreciate your insights.


I am attaching a map that has one change. It increases the length of one of the buttes and is marked in black. My reasoning is that without it, the distance from the Valley to HH will be a lot shorter than the time I say it takes to walk it in my story. This extension makes the trail a bit longer by winding it.


My other comments are: 

I like the text for the various sections , however, some are too light to see. Also, perhaps you might want to sketch in Devil's Walk before trying different text and text locations as I think that will be a major influence.


I like the Oz logo a lot - You did that well and I like it better in the corner. I am thinking that it deserves to stand out more with some contrasting colors...however, my wife accuses me of being gaudy in other aspects of my life.


There is nothing wrong with you saying 'no' if it is better for the overall composition. Good job!

March 3, 2015



Here is an update proof. Many things are progressing.

 1) I spent a lot of time finishing up the shadows on the big mountains inback and some shadows in the canyon area.


 2) I haven’t yet cut back on the farmlands, but that’s coming. I’ll also add some foothills along the western border near the farms.


 3) I moved the OZ title over to the corner and made it a little smaller


 4) Outlands, Wilds, and Hearth artwork is coming


 5) Planning to fill in tree-lines and glaciers/snows for the tall mountains


 6) I started dropping in some text labels. Trying out font, position, style, color, etc. We could go with curving lines like this, but we could also go with straight lines for regions and curving lines for sites, like the cities.

 Feel free to let me know what you think.




 On Mar 3, 2015, at 11:10 AM, Bob Moyer < wrote:


You are quite the artist...comments follow

On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 3:31 AM, Christian STIEHL wrote:



Here is another proof with some more progress. Note that many of the big blocks of color and texture are not meant to be final, but as an initial movement towards what they may look like when finished.

Things to note:

1) I’ve begun to lower the Outlands area as per your instructions. I’ll be making this more apparent as the outlines take shape. OK

2) I’ve laid down the beginnings of an exotic texture for the Wilds OK

3) The big mountains in the background are much more fully detailed than before, with lots of ink work fleshing them out. OK

4) I’ve just started a look to the Hell’s Hearth area that will have a lot of cracked and blackened land with veins of glowing lava. I’ll have a hellish glow coloring the canyon walls around there.OK

5) In line with your instructions and the pictures you provided, I’ve begun work on a farmland look surrounding Cornucopia. This will eventually be blended into the landscape a bit better. OK, plus there is plenty of room to change up the topography with the examples I sent. Also, it may currently be too extensive. Let me know if the farmland should be trimmed back somewhat. Yes trim back or change up - You can have mountains behind it on the Western Border...

6) I’ve layered in some tree-top textures for the Monkey Jungle. There will eventually be more dimension here, with lots of vines hanging from the canyon walls around the jungle.Great Ideas it is too refined for me to see anything other than golf course at this time. I think the black for the Hearth is a good touch


Feel free to comment on anything you see, offer suggestions, ask questions, etc. Looks like it is progressing well. Thank you. I like the Oz Emblem. Not sure it matters but might it be better in the upper left corner? I understand balance and so whatever you think. I think it might show better in the corner as their will be no mountains behind to compete with it.

Dear Christian,

I looked it over and it looks pretty much the same as the one I responded to the last time. It has none of the recommendations that I had in that email nor does it have the addition of the crop topography. You acknowledged getting the email and suggestions.  I will be glad to resend.


Bob Moyer,



 On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 11:16 AM, Christian STIEHL  wrote:



I would rather not be let out of the agreement. I don’t want to make excuses, but only indicate that I may have underestimated the complexity of the project. I may have been sinking too much time into small details instead of completing broader strokes of color and texture. I fell behind on our schedule.



I also apologize for not keeping the communication up as regularly as before over the last few weeks. I’m committed to finishing the map and doing so quickly. I have been making progress on the map, including the border and title text. I’m enclosing an updated proof and will send you another one later today with much more fill.



I now consider this "crunch-time” and absolutely top priority. I’ll send you daily updates until it’s done.





February 17, 2015



I’ve begun to put in some basic shadows to add a lot of dimension to the map.


I also laid down some flat patches of color here and there, to start the process of coloring the map. These are not the final colors, of course, but I wanted to use them to help delineate the various regions. I have the Vegan area being a small region of light green. The Monkey Jungle being the large central area of dark green. The Hell Hearth is the reddish region.


The disk-shaped regions are simply placeholders for the cities, towns and structures.


Can you let me know if these are marking out the right areas?

1) Should the red extend down that canyon to the dark green, or should that canyon be more jungle?

2) Or should the canyon between the red and green be a buffer zone that’s more rocky and barren?

3) Is the area of the commonwealth greenish and grassy, like farmland?

4) Are there regions that will be more tawny grasses?

5) Are there regions that will be more desert-like, like scrub or steppe or even dryer?

Let me know what you think.


 January 29, 2015



Here is a new progress image showing the changes you outlined in your last email. You’ll notice the change of the canyon walls to close off one avenue and open the other, the addition of rivers and changing the courses of other rivers to make sense, and lots of little details added in lots of places.






Here is a new sketch of Western Oz, with changes based upon our conversation on the phone yesterday. You’ll see that I’ve:


1) Added the bodies of water on either side of the map


2) Extended fingers of the canyon cliff walls on the eastern side to create the pinch area you talked about


3) Made the lake over there crowd into the gap


4) Put rivers into the map, winding from the waterfalls at the top and then combining to flow out of the map through the narrow canyon to the south


5) Moved the fringes out to take up more the eastern side of the map


6) Added more details all over the place


I’ll keep forging ahead. Let me know what you think.



January 26, 2015

Dear Christian,


I think you can make the walls a lot steeper. The only thing that will appear at the bottom of the gorge is Devil's walk and it can be a thick line. Also the walk has to be narrowed at a point like in my last rendering to pinch them close to the hearth. Then it will lead to the trail out. It is getting there and looking very good along the way.




On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 12:24 AM, Christian STIEHL  wrote:

Mr. Moyer,
Here is the third sketch update. I’ve made more all-around progress, but in particular you’ll notice these details:

1) Added height to many of the canyon walls by lowering their bases.

2) Added mesa tops and pointy tops to some of the canyon walls

3) Increased the height and steepness of many of the existing peaks

4) Began to redraw the big peaks at the top to make them taller and more strikingly angular

5) Added two rivers winding among those peaks and turning into waterfalls

—Christian Stiehl


January 22, 2015


On Jan 22, 2015, at 7:20 AM, Christian STIEHL wrote:


That’s good feedback, thank you. I’ll increase the heights and the deeps, and aim towards more angular and ominous mountains.



On Jan 22, 2015, at 7:17 AM, Bob Moyer  wrote:


Looks good to me - my only comment which may be premature - is it possible to get more depth - what I liked about your work was the depth in the contest you won. I like this, but I was hoping for a bit more steep..deeper canyons, higher mountain peaks even if it hides part of the Devil's walk.. Also, some of the flat tops can be peaked and some of the mountains can be more ominous, angular in the background. But this is good and my comments are in no way intended to take anything from this. Thank you.

On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 1:16 AM, Christian STIEHL < wrote:


Mr. Moyer,


Here is the next update for the Western Oz map. I’m continuing the basic ink-work at this half-resolution size, still roughing in the basic shapes of the mountains and other terrain.

Some things to note:

1) I’ve laid some channels in between the mountains along the top for rivers to flow, which will then be expressed in mighty waterfalls along the northern cliffs.

2) I thought it might be interesting to have a narrow canyon actually separating the Outlands from the Wilds. Perhaps a river can flow at the bottom of this canyon, carrying water away from the Gorge. I didn’t want the canyon to be an impassable barrier, so I placed a number of land bridges along the length of it. I think it adds some visual interest and makes a sensible divider between those regions.


Let me know what you think.


Sincerely, Christian




January 20, 2015


Dear Mr. Moyer,


Here is an update for the Western Oz map. I’ve begun laying down the more detailed ink-work, based upon our discussion and the updated sketch you sent back. This is still early in the process, so much of what you see will become far more detailed over the next week or two. You can see my work in black and your notes in the greenish-grey. In the mountains, I’m including a number of volcano features so that it looks like your initial sketch from a few months ago.


Note that this image is at half the projected final resolution, so the final will have more fine detail than this.


Yours is now my primary project, and I won’t be working on any others until it is done. I’m still aiming for completion in time for your kickstarter campaign. I’ll be sending you regular updates.




Christian Stiehl



Early January Communications:


From: Bob Moyer


Date: Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 9:48 AM Subject: Re: Update please... To: Christian STIEHL


Thank you. I have lived long enough to understand the value time, the shortness of life, and the even shorter time we have when it comes to raising our children. You are putting your heart and time in the right place, your family, and our world will be better for it. I can always alter deadlines if I know in advance, well in advance as much as possible. Bob Moyer



On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 8:09 PM, Christian STIEHL wrote:


Bob, I am confident that I can have the map finished for you by your mid-February deadline. Even taking into account unforeseen difficulties, I’m certain that I can have a large, detailed, great-looking section of the map completed by that time, appropriate for showing off during the Kickstarter. I’ll begin sending you progress images of the map taking shape, based on our conversation before Christmas, within a day or two and you’ll be able to see the map coming together over the next month as the Kickstarter approaches.


Sincerely, Christian Stiehl



On Jan 8, 2015, at 10:09 AM, Bob Moyer  wrote:


No problem and no hurry - tomorrow is fine. Enjoy these days while you can. Bob Moyer



On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Christian Stiehl wrote: I'm out on a field trip with my kid at the moment, but I'll respond when I'm home later today. Sent from my iPhone On Jan 8, 2015, at 9:48 AM,



On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Bob Moyer wrote:


Dear Christian,

I hope your holidays were special. I appreciate the detail you have dedicated to my project. I would like to launch my Kickstarter campaign - ideally by Mid February. Kickstarter is a 30 day marketing effort and my book will either get funding or not. The map is an impressive part of showing my commitment to the project so its completion and inclusion within the effort is critical.

Can you give me a realistic or worst-case date for completion or for a good enough map-in-process to include it in the Kickstarter marketing effort. If it is not practical, I need to know that also.

Thank you. I am at the number below if you need to speak with me during office hours today or tomorrow. Ext 308 Bob Moyer








On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:05 PM, Christian STIEHL < wrote:




I’m not blown away. Everything is good. I am busily working on several projects, but yours is one of them and will not be neglected. I’ll be sending you another layout proof a little later today, with changes based upon your last message.



I think I had some confusion about the gorge initially, but your latest email helps to clear some of that up. Instead of the gorge being a wide area that contains Vegans, Jungle, and Hell, I now gather that it should be a more narrow landform. I have your information about the dimensions of the gorge (60 miles east-to-west, etc.), but I have some follow-up questions:


1) Should the gorge wind its way through the Vegans, Jungle, and Hell on its way from east to west? In other words, would there be a Vegan area (and Jungle area, etc.) both north of and south of the gorge? No - each of these areas are at the bottom of the Gorge.


2) Or should the gorge stay to the north or the south of the those three upper regions? NA


3) If the gorge is south of Vegans, Jungle, and Hell, that puts it right up against Raven’s Ridge, which is a good thing as far as I remember. The gorge is north or RR and the Wilds and outlands are south


4) Devil’s walk winds along the bottom of the gorge, I’ve got that. And you mention that Devil’s Walk separates Outlands and Hell. Is Devil’s Walk confined entirely to the gorge for the whole distance to the Commonwealth entrance? Devils walk is a trail that winds through Vegan, Jungle, and Hell from commonwealth to the eye of the witch. The eye is an airport that overlooks the gorge. Devil's walk does not divide, it is a trail.


5) How much winding around should the gorge do? Do you envision it as very branchy, like the Grand Canyon or something? I like that idea...


6) Do we have a river running along the bottom of the gorge? There can be that or a body of water that lies within the gorge but only affecting a small part of Hell's Hearth.


Let me know what you think.


Sincerely, Christian Stiehl



Good evening Christian,
Yes this is getting pretty close! I will mark it up a bit and send it back with some notes tomorrow. Thank you and good job.


On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 9:34 PM, Christian STIEHL  wrote:

Here is another basic layout, based on the comments you had below. Let me know if we are getting closer, and which elements are “good” and do not need to change. Again, we are just at the layout stage right now, just making sure all the relative sizes and orientations are correct.
Also, I sent another email earlier today with some questions about the layout.
Let me know what you think.
Christian Stiehl

On Nov 28, 2014, at 12:52 PM, Bob Moyer <> wrote:
The mountains are about six miles high.  Raven's Ridge butte is about two miles high.  The eye of the witch airport is about four miles from the bottom of the gorge which puts it half way between the top of RR and the top of the mountains
The widest part of the gorge is two miles, but it narrows down to less than half a mile near hell.
The gorge runs about sixty miles from east to west.
Vegans take up about twelve miles
Jungle about 30 miles
Hell - 18 miles.
The Outlands start and abut the edge of  Hell about the last three miles. You could Devil's Walk as a separation of the Outlands and Hell. Hell can then bow out in rough formation up to twelve miles from the fringes, but should taper down a bit further south.
The Wilds is a significant expanse  with boundaries of mountains to the west;  ridge to the north, and the Outlands to the east.  The map will have no southern boundary other than a great and open-endless expanse of Dreadful Wilds. 
Hope this helps.
Thank you for the opportunity to be of service!
Bob Moyer

Here is a new version of Layout 1, with a few small changes. I made the gorge a little larger, and I rearranged the borders of the three ecosystems on the bottom of the gorge (Vegan, Monkey, Hell) so that they’re more contained and not as spread out, longitudinally. I hope it’s clear that Raven’s Ridge is right up against the southern border of the gorge.
Let me know if this is good, or if you have more adjustments.
On Nov 27, 2014, at 9:04 AM, Bob Moyer <> wrote:

Happy Thanksgiving Christian,


Thanks for getting on this. I understand what you are asking. Number 1 is fine if it can be blown up a bit for a larger document with excellent detail for a limited edition. I think you are very close. I would suggest you look at the map that I sent though.


If you need to make the Gorge wider to give it dimension, then so be it. However, as in the map...the ecosystems or whatever - are more linear than staggered and there is not that much land mass between Raven's Ridge and the Gorge.


By linear, I mean - vegan, jungle, hearth - each with their own little quadrant of land. However you can vary their shape or the shape of Raven's Ridge.


Thank you for the opportunity to be of service!

Bob Moyer


On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 2:55 PM, Christian STIEHL <> wrote:
I’ve wrapped up some of the ongoing projects I had at the time we started talking. I want to get the ball rolling on the Western Oz map and start setting up a foundation for the basic layout of the poster.
Of course I had your initial sketch, but mostly I paid attention to the document you sent me and the descriptions therein. The layouts I’ve included as attachments below are meant to just nail down the relative orientations for the variouslandform features I’ll be depicting—how close they are to each other, how far one feature extends towards another, what the general shape should be on the poster, etc.
Obviously this is a very basic layout to start with, but it’s important to nail down where things should be. I expect you’ll have lots of feedback, and maybe lots of little corrections. You can describe them, or you could sketch over the image with new boundary lines…whatever is easiest.
Version 1
Version 2
Version 3
Version 4
A note on the four versions: I sketched this layout in a basic 8x10 portrait orientation, which is labeled Layout #1. Then I though that you might want to consider other orientations and/or aspect ratios, so I rotated it to a 10x8 landscape orientation (labeled Layout #2), I stretched it to a 24x36 tall portrait size (labeled Layout #3), and finally I rotated it to a 36x24 wide landscape size. Mostly, I just wanted to have you consider the poster in various orientations and think about how it will effect the presentation of the information. I’m leaning toward continuing with Layout #1, which will both make a good poster and also fill a book page quite well. The other thing to keep in mind is marrying up this Western poster with the proposed Eastern poster. Layout #1 also works well in this regard, as placing West and East together at some future time will make a new “combo” poster with reasonable dimensions. Definitely landscape.
Some questions for you about this layout:
1) Is the No Name Gorge large enough? It is relatively narrow in relation to the overall scheme. From my reading of your notes, it sounds as though more action will be taking place in the gorge than will be taking place in regions like the Outlands or Wilds. If this is true, perhaps I should “bulge” the gorge even further south, pushing the regions of the Outlands and Wilds more towards the bottom of the map. This would give more space for the Devil’s Walk to wander, and more room for details in the Vegan, Monkey, and Hell areas. Even when expanding the gorge, I think I could keep the Commonwealth from being squished. If this will make a better/more interesting map by increasing the dimension, then go for it. However, Devil's Walk is a trail that winds from Cornucopia, through Vegan Valley, monkey jungle, and then the hearth. In perspective, the jungle takes up more linear space than the the other two. I just noticed Devil's Walk on the map!
2) Six miles tall is quite an impressive height for mountains. I’m looking forward to depicting this verticality, and I’m keeping in mind that this is a fantasy world where we don’t necessarily need to have all the layers of foothills that we would have in the Himalaya, for instance. I will, naturally, blend the mountains into the terrain and have them look great. Should the mountains just east of the Commonwealth actually be the tallest on the map? Do whatever makes the map look the best. Should some of the mountains at the top be as tall or taller? I would normally depict such very tall peaks with both snow and glacier ice near the top…I assume that’s good? Excellent - the more character, waterfalls, whatever, the better.

General Comment: You can remove the House of the Witch words and the star. Western Commonwealth or House of the Witch refers to the overall land and I do not know what sounds better as far as description.  The Eye o' the Witch is like a launch area or dock that overlooks the gorge and needs to be relocated upward.  You can remove mountains there because they begin west of there.
The Outlands can best be described by looking at the map I sent earlier - it kind of borders the fringes and can bulge and such, but there was the Dreadful Wilds between the outlands and West commonwealth.
I think I was working with a different perspective in mind and hoping for a lot of dimension. That may not be possible as i am no artist and to me dimension is most important.  Another thought is this...perhaps we do not need to show the western most mountains that flank the western commonwealth. Perhaps show the eastern moubntains and narrow length of the Western Common wealth giving more room for dimension within the gorge - I do not mind this at all. This way the western commonwealth is not limited and can be what ever I need it to be if I do another book. Also there is a lot of room if we need it in the upper left corner. It is covered with a lot of mountains...and if there is room, there is a body of water in the gorge where the vegan valley merges into the jungle; and another south of Devil's walk about halfway through the hearth.
I am writing from home - have no scanner or way to communicate my thoughts other than this email. If speaking works better, let me know. - You can also call during the work week at 813-930-8036 x 308; leave a message if I do not pick up. If you need answers this weekend, Thank you and Happy Thanksgiving


On Nov 5, 2014, at 9:27 AM, Christian STIEHL wrote:


Bob, Sure,you can call me Christian. That arrangement works for me. I’ll talk to you soon, and revise the contract after we decide which way to go.



On Nov 5, 2014, at 8:11 AM, Bob Moyer <> wrote:


Dear Christian,

How about this. I will pay down and start with the 300dpi map. However, I will get with you in the next day or three before you begin the map and after speaking with you, I may upgrade it before you start the map and pay more money down.


Does that work? If so do you need to alter the agreement. Possibly...?


No more questions...until we speak...Send me the modified version when you can.


Also - I REALLY appreciate the attention that you have given my questions.


I go by Bob - do you go by Christian?


Bob Moyer


On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Christian STIEHL <> wrote:


Going from 300ppi to 600ppi on a map, while keeping the dimensions the same, is usually going to involve making a map with more fine detail. Instead of seeing a building with a roof, you see a building with a roof that has a suggestion of roof tiles. Instead of seeing a village represented as just an icon, you might see the village drawn as a cluster of buildings. I’ve made a couple quick images from one of my previous maps. Both represent the same mountainous region (the mountains around an elven city), but one is “zoomed in” and the other “zoomed out”. You can see that the actual mountains are the same shape, but have more detail in one than the other. In the first, you can see a suggestion of a river flowing from the area, where in the second you can see where the river actually flows down the mountains. In the close-in image you can see the shape of the elven city and a small grove of special trees that don’t appear in the pulled-out image at all, because they’d be too small.


You could imagine that the smaller image is the 300 pixels per inch style of map, whereas the larger image represents the 600 pixels per inch. In other words, the whole map has more information packed into it when it’s drawn at high resolution. This means it’s essentially drawing another map, a different map. Much of the layout can be reused, but there’s a great deal of effort involved in getting that extra detail in there. I think it’s worth it - - I love maps with lots of detail - - but it’s time consuming.


Let’s again go back to the Azuline Falls map that was the basis for your inquiry. After negotiations about copyright, we agreed on a price of $600.00 to do a map for Western Oz in that style, with that level of detail. Bumping the detail level up would put that same map in the range, with all of the same copyright terms as we discussed. It’s twice the level of detail (actually four times as many pixels), but not fully twice the price. There should be savings here and there in the process that make it easier than doing two complete maps.


Christian Stiehl



On Nov 5, 2014, at 7:26 AM, Bob Moyer wrote:


By this I mean will it cost more, take more time, if so how much...etc. I am really running out of questions. Bob Moyer,


On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 5:11 PM, Christian STIEHL wrote:


I have some questions about the first point. I don’t print out many drafts, since I work digitally on my iPad and my Macintosh. The progress proof files that I’ll be sending you via email will be JPEGs and they will have my mark and copyright on them. I’ll remove my copyright when I deliver the final files to you in lossless digital format, but I’ll leave my artist’s mark in a corner of the image. I’m not sure if this answers your first stipulation. Any “progress” draft or proof images that I create en route to making the final drawing are all considered a part of the final drawing in terms of copyright, and can never be used separately for any purpose not specified in our contract. For instance, I could never sell a half-completed version of your map to some other person - - the map is considered a single work, and is protected by copyright as a unified thing.


I should mention that, in the illustration industry, there are certain practices which apply to original artwork. These don’t affect us, because I’m working digitally, but if I were say, a painter who painted an illustrated cover for a fantasy novel, I’d usually be expected to mail or ship the finished painting to the publisher. The publisher would then scan or photograph the painting and send it back to me. Typically the publisher would have purchased full copyrightfor the image, for the sum of thousands of dollars, and would proceed to publish the novel with that cover image. Meanwhile, as the artist I retain only the physical original of the painting, which I could then exhibit at a fantasy convention or sell to a collector.


In terms of the digital files, I have a workflow employing many programs. I’ve my honed my skills over a number of years. My original digital files are never available for sale, as they contain much of my tradecraft and techniques. What I provide to the client during the design phase are proof images that are are compressed (like JPEGs) and are typically at a lower resolution than the final target. Upon completion, I provide high-resolution files with lossless compression, such as PNG, TIFF, or EPS. These final files are appropriate for printing.


As for size, the dimensions I had in mind were those similar to the map you initially singled out, the Azuline Falls map posted online. That map has enough detail and resolution that it can be printed out as a small poster, say up to 18 x 24 inches, with no visual problems. It could probably be printed at 24 x 36 inch poster size and look good to anyone who is not nose-to-nose with it. The way I’ve laid out the text and details of the image mean that it also looks good printed at 8.5 x 11 inches (standard letter-paper). If printed smaller than that, I’d expect some of the finer details to be hard to see. Since we hadn’t yet discussed it, I was assuming a size and level of detail for your map similar to what I’ve outlined above.


You’ll be able to give the digital file I provide you to a book publisher, a printer, a small press, a Kinko’s, etc. and have them print out a great-looking full color map at the size you choose and on the paper you desire. (I used to work for Kinko’s, years ago, and was in charge of printing posters and banners using a very large full-color inkjet printer. They can even print it for you directly onto real canvas substrate, which you can have mounted on a frame so it looks like a painting). You’ll also be able to print it at home if you have a decent printer. I don’t currently have a color printer at my place, so if I need color I have to go to a local print shop.


As I mentioned above, if a map has many fine details drawn into it, and it’s printed at a rather small size (say, 5.5 x 8.5 inches, the size of many paperback books), there may be details that get lost because they’re simply too small to appear on the paper. Every illustration or photograph faces this same issue, but it’s an especially important one to keep in mind for maps due to their nature as functional documents as well as artistic expressions. If you print a photo of part of the Sistine Chapel and some of the cracks in the marble don’t show up on the 4 x 6 inch picture, you might not notice because you can still easily make out the clouds and angels. If you print a map and the text label for a river can’t be read because it’s too small, that becomes a bigger problem.


As you can see, it’s important for us to agree on the intended size of the map before I begin working on it, so that I can use my experience and expertise to make sure all of the relevant details will appear when it’s printed. It’s also important to agree on the size because very large maps typically have a great deal of detail, thus taking a great deal of time to produce, and thus being more expensive to create than smaller maps. It’s sometimes the case that a client wants one version of the map to be big and highly detailed, and also another version of the map to be printable at a much smaller size. Obviously, this actually entails the creation of two maps, because it takes skill and effort to selectively intensify certain details of the map so that it will look better when printed small. There should be significant savings for the artist involved in the creation of the smaller map, however, meaning that it should only entail a small additional fee. I’m not sure we’re anywhere near knowing whether you’ll need any additional versions of the map, but you can let me know.


If you haven’t printed many poster-like images before, it can be difficult to be sure how much detail you’ll need and how it will appear. You have my permission to download maps of mine from the web and print them out for your own reference (not to sell them, of course). Since it’s my work that you’ll be eventually printing, it makes sense for you to try printing some of my previous work. I’ll include a few links below to my pages on There you will see, to the right of each image, a big “Download” button that will allow you to download a full-resolution, high-quality version of the map. You can print it at home or take it somewhere and have them print a version for you. This should help you visualize which details show up on screen versus which details show up on the page, and how legible they are. (If the printer questions you about the copyright, you can commend them for following the law and then show them this email as proof that I’ve given you permission to make the print.)


You know the Azuline Falls map already, and this is the style we’re aiming for with Western Oz. The Arachadia map is an example of a map where the detail is appropriate for printing in a paperback novel. The map has many small details, but all of the salient information is large enough to be visible when printed at 5.5 x 8.5 size (happily, there is also enough detail in this map that it would still look good printed as a small poster). The Valley of Blood and Gold map is an overland-style map similar in size and resolution to the Azuline Falls map. Some of Western Oz will probably look a bit like parts of this map.


Let me know what you think. Also, let me know if the deadline I came up with works for you.



Christian Stiehl



On Nov 4, 2014, at 12:36 PM, Bob Moyer  wrote:


I would like one other stipulation in there. All drafts are to be signed by the illustrator, in addition to the original, and the drafts are to be provided along with completed original, along with copyright of drafts. Also,what about size? What do we do or what does it cost if I want some larger sizes or different sizes of the same quality as the original?


On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 2:59 PM, Christian STIEHL wrote:



I’ve drawn up a simple illustration contract for the map in question and created an invoice for it. Both are attached as PDFs to this email. A few of the details, such as the deadline for this map and the ultimate size/format for the map were unknown, so I put in possible options. Deadline of end of December, size 11x17 (two page spread in a large book) at 300 pixels per inch, etc.


Please look it over and let me know if there are any details you need changed. I can revise and send you a new document. All other details are as we have agreed upon them, to the best of my knowledge. Feel free to ask questions if anything is unclear.



Christian Stiehl


On Nov 4, 2014, at 8:18 AM, Bob Moyer  wrote:


I wholeheartedly agree as you deserve the recognition and I want you to have i

Bob Moyer


Christian Stiehl wrote:


I can work with that, as long as we still agree to certain terms, like the ones you mention here: "You may sign what you create, add it to your portfolio, and advertise your creation of it, but not reproduce or sell it.” I accept your offer. I’ll make a modified version of my simple contract and send it to you a little later today, along with the invoice for the first map.



Christian Stiehl


On Nov 4, 2014, at 6:46 AM, Bob Moyer  wrote:


How about we split the difference. I will pay you $ for the full copyright-complete ownership rights. However, if the project goes well, and we move on to East Oz and a complete map of Oz, I pay the same...which would be for East Oz and no more than $for all Oz depending upon the complexity. If that works, upon your agreement, I will pay pain you $ once you invoice me. 


Bob Moyer

On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Christian Stiehl wrote:

Questions are no problem. Happy to respond.


To be clear, you will retain all of your intellectual property and rights to the setting, the characters, the text of your stories, etc. All we are talking about are the rights to the drawing of the map itself.


When it comes to copyright, the normal practice for most of my client relationships is for me to retain copyright and to then assign a license to use the map in the manner they're planning. So, upon final payment, the client might then have the rights (as specified in our contract) to use the map in a novel, a comic book, and a computer game, for instance. I would not allow anyone else to use the map for those purposes.


Just to be clear, because I normally work digitally, there is no physical original.


Because the artwork is our livelihood, we illustrators are careful about selling the full copyright. There are times when re-purposing of the artwork, or the creation of derivative artwork at some point in the future, has become a financial boon for the illustrator who retained his copyrights. So it's a good practice for me to do so in general, and standard practice among my fellow cartographers.


That said, there are times when the client absolutely needs to own the full copyright. Because the illustrator is giving up any potential income from the artwork in the future (such as selling posters at an artist's booth in a fantasy convention, for instance), he needs to charge a greater fee up front.


My typical practice would be to double my commission for works where I'm selling the copyright as well. So the map that is priced at $ would instead be $.


Most of the time, I've found that clients are fine with a good license that covers them for the things they need to do with the map, but I'll leave that for you to decide.


Let me know what you think.


Sent from my iPhone


On Nov 3, 2014, at 11:51 AM, Bob Moyer  wrote:


Sorry...I keep having questions. I would need to own the art outright - do those rights come with it? You may sign what you create, add it to your portfolio, and advertise your creation of it, but not reproduce or sell it. If this is acceptable, then I would like to start off with Western Oz and will pay half your fee promptly.

Assuming all goes well, we will take it from there. In the meantime, I will find some maps similar in dimension to what I would be expecting for overall Oz. It will likely be a bit more detailed than the examples you have provided and if need be you can revise your proposal.

If this is acceptable, I have a couple more things to go over with you that will get you some pretty good publicity and a bit more money.

Bob Moyer

On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 2:26 PM, Christian STIEHL wrote:


Revisions are definitely part of the process. I like working closely with my clients, and I’ve changed many details of maps to suit their vision. Ideally, most of these revisions would occur during the design process and would be completed when the final artwork is delivered. That’s why I make sure to send you progress proofs along the way - - so that you can catch things that don’t look right and we can fix them while the project is still rolling. Making revisions after the project is complete and you’ve signed off on the finished artwork would normally involve a negotiation of a small additional fee, and that’s customary in arrangements like this.



Christian Stiehl


On Nov 3, 2014, at 11:14 AM, Bob Moyer  wrote:


Ok - what is your thoughts on revisions? I truly value a person's time, but I also want what I want...and sometimes, not being an artist, can make it difficult.



On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 1:56 PM, Christian STIEHL wrote:



Got it, thanks.


So, looking that over, and assuming the two maps, Eastern Oz and Western Oz, will both be done in the style of my Azuline Falls map with a similar level of detail, I’d feel comfortable pricing each of them at $. The overall map, if it’s done in a somewhat simpler style (see the Arachadia map and the Valley of Blood and Gold map on my web site, ), would be priced around $, given that I could make use of some of the layout from the more detailed maps.


This would make the commission for this project $, which is a good and reasonable sum for a something with this level of quality and detail, and taking into account the time and effort that will go into it. I’d be happy to take this on and work it into my schedule if that sounds good to you.


Customarily, half the fee is due upon commencement of work, with the balance due upon delivery of the final artwork. I’ve had good luck using PayPal, and my address there is [ ]. I like to give frequent progress updates to my clients so that they can see how the work is shaping up and give guidance and feedback. I want you to be very happy with the results. I have a simple illustration contract that I like to send to clients which protects both parties and spells out certain details of the project, and I can send that to you when you’re ready to move forward.


Let me know what you think, and thanks for the opportunity of working with you.


Christian Stiehl


On Nov 3, 2014, at 9:51 AM, Bob Moyer  wrote:


Here you is color and the other bw


On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Christian STIEHL wrote:



I’ve got your email, sketch, and descriptions. I’m coming up with an estimate for you. I’ll be on the look out for the rendering you’re sending on Monday.


Judging by the type of map, the description, the sketch, and assuming a level of detail and complexity similar to the Azuline Falls map that I made, I’d estimate somewhere in the $400 range for the Western Oz map. If the Eastern Oz map is similar, I’d price it about the same, but I can wait to see the rendering.


As for the overall map, we would need to discuss what kind of approach you want. The cheapest, easiest version is to just stitch the West and East maps together, if in fact they are contiguous. That could lead to some issues, however, as you might imagine. Details might wind up being too small to see, etc. Doing a separate drawing for the overall map is usually the best approach, allowing small details to fade into the background so that things don’t get too crowded. If the overall map doesn’t need to have quite as much isometric perspective, and can be a little more “illustrated” looking, it could be easier to produce and thus a bit cheaper, in the $$ range.


Let me know what you think.


Christian Stiehl


> On Nov 1, 2014, at 11:31 AM, Bob Moyer wrote:


Dear Christian,

I am including a description of Eastern Oz and one for Western Oz.  Western Oz requires a good deal of dimension and when I saw your contest winner, I thought you could do a good job with it.
I am including a map which is far from complete, but better than anything I could draw.
Eastern Oz requires some dimension. I will email you a rendering Monday, but the description will give you a start. So I guess I need a price for West Oz, East Oz, and then an overall map.
Thank you for getting back with me.





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